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February 5, 2008

software

Linux founder Torvalds dishes on OS X, Windows

Posted Feb. 5, ’08, 9:33 AM PT by Dan Moren
Category | Software

Linux TorvaldsIf there’s one thing I can say about Linus Torvalds, the father of Linux, is this: man, is he one snappy dresser. Also, he loves penguins. But when it comes to his critiques of operating systems, well, I guess he and I will have to agree to disagree:

[Torvalds] poured scorn on the modern trend to treat a new version or update of an operating system as a cause for major celebration and marketing.

“An operating system should be completely invisible,” he said. “To Microsoft and Apple (it is) a way to control the whole environment … to force people to upgrade their applications and hardware.”

Well, maybe. But not entirely: I mean, as I just mentioned in an earlier post this morning, my desktop computer is running an OS originally released in 2003 on hardware purchased in 1999. That said, it’s true that I don’t use it for computing very much: it’s more of a file server nowadays.

I agree that a good operating system shouldn’t get in the way of users actually doing things, and that’s one reason I find OS X superior to Windows—and Linux. The curve on Linux—even on simplified versions like the OLPC, which I had a chance to play with last week—can still be pretty steep.

Don’t get me wrong: I believe that there’s a value to Linux and the open source movement, but I also think that there’s room for both that and companies like Apple and, heck, even Microsoft. The argument over “controlling the whole environment” has been raging for as long desktop computers have been around—I think that it’s mainly a matter of personal preference. Some like the tight integration of Mac hardware and software, others would rather have their choice of cheap hardware and run Windows, still others want total and utter control over everything they run. I think there’s plenty of space for all of these people.

Torvalds also went on to say that although he thinks Leopard is “a much better system, OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary.” I don’t know enough about the details to know whether or not this is true, but I’m sure there will be plenty of people who agree and disagree in the comments below.

But at least we can all agree that penguins are adorable.


12 Comments

fletcher Author Profile Page said:

What we think of as an OS and what Linus thinks of as an OS are completely different. People give Linus credit for Linux, but he really is known for working on one component.

The GUI and all the applications that come bundled with Mac OS X are not technically part of the OS as far as Linus is concerned.

In short, he's from a completely different planet and can be safely disregarded unless you are interesting in the true low-level arcana of the kernel.

February 5, 2008 10:05 AM
Well Author Profile Page said:

Once upon a time I was writing my own programs in basic. Shunned the silly idea of a GUI as a waste of precious drive space, processor time, and RAM.

Today.

Give me OS X. I just want to plug the stupid machine in and work. Can't do it with Windows and sure as heck can't do it with any Linux flavor I've tried.

February 5, 2008 10:13 AM
krye said:

Whatever. I've tried to give Linux the benefit of the doubt for over 10 years, and it sucks. It's great as a low-profile file server, or print server, etc, but as a user desktop, it's crap.

I just installed suse 10.3 and all I wanted to do was install the Elisa media player. I had to resolve 89 dependencies totaling 250 megs just to get one application to install. Give me a break.

Application support is a joke too. Half the apps are written by broken-english speaking 15 years olds in a basement in the Netherlands.

Of course Linus is salty. Wouldn't you be? I mean, 20 years and still your little baby is nothing more than a hobbie to most?

February 5, 2008 10:25 AM
Grover said:

Uhhh... didn't every successive version of OS X (from 10.0 to 10.4 anyway) actually run better on older hardware? My five year old G4 PowerBook runs faster under 10.4 than it did under 10.3.

Linus has as much to do with the modern Linux experience as Bill Gates has to do with the modern Windows experience. Which is not much.

February 5, 2008 10:31 AM
ghostface147 said:

Linux is too complicated for the average user. Until you can get the blonde receptionist down the hall to understand and use linux, it will never take major marketshare. OS X has it's flaws as well, and Windows is garbage in some ways too. People go with what they know, which is actually what they were forced to use. If only someone had actually competed with Microsoft back in the early 90's with their OS. OS/2 doesn't count because they weren't marketed properly.

February 5, 2008 11:01 AM
Paul said:

I use Linux daily. I love that it's free, that it's rock solid, that I have a *NIX command line, that I can hack into it as much as I want to.

I hate that I'm expected to hack into it to do simple things (like getting the *%^$ing firewall working, or spending 16 hours trying to get screen spanning working before giving up).

My work PC is dual boot Windows and Linux, and when I get sick of Linux, I boot into Windows (there's nothing I can do in Windows that I can't do in Linux) then I switch back really quickly when I see why I installed Linux in the first place (so I wouldn't have to run Windows).

Thank diety I have a Mac at home. Despite a few flaws, I never want to boot into Linux or Windows when I'm using it.

February 5, 2008 11:11 AM
wesg Author Profile Page said:

I've used Linux for a few different projects, mostly servers and the like, but it is in no way a substitute for my MacBook. Even with the GUI, it was not a pleasant computing experience. Having to check dependencies for a single application made me ditch it for my webserver, and I will likely never use it again.

February 5, 2008 1:44 PM
Khürt Williams Author Profile Page said:

As someone who uses Linux, WIndows and OS X on a daily basis I have to say, with all due respect to Linus ... Linux sucks ass as a day to day usable computing system. Give me a fracking break! Does he really expect my mom to compile her own wireless card driver? Does my wife give a s**t about her file system and boot loader?

February 5, 2008 3:54 PM
Anonymous said:

You all realize that resolving dependencies is a distro-specific thing, right? If you want to complain about it, that's fine, but the target of your complaint should be the people who decide what goes into the default install of that specific distribution, not to the Linux world in general. Most mainstream distros (Debian-based ones in particular) have excellent automatic dependency resolution, meaning that it's not much more than a one-click process in many cases.

There's plenty to criticize in Linux (power management and wireless being two particularly bad areas, still), but also a lot to like. And if the popularity of Disk Warrior for OS X is any indication, Linus's file system taunt might not be too far off the mark.

February 5, 2008 6:30 PM
McBain said:

Someone explain why this guy's opinion matters. Or is he just the computing equivalent of the die-hard Trekkie who nitpicks the inconsistencies between the original series and Enterprise?

February 5, 2008 7:23 PM
Bill Jinks said:

I do so love the comment about using cheap hardware and running windows?? Hate to point out, but since apple went from bespoke to generic hardware, they use the same cheap hardware that would be used on a windows or linux machine, apart from the fact that all hardware will run on windows, a vast majority will run on linux, and none but that approved by apple will run on macs, and it's always older than the latest releases. As for the OS being crap in file management etc: You do realise MACH (the kernel base for OSX) is renowned for being atrocious at virtual memory and memory management in every way. Even to the point that NeXTStep (where it was derrived from) was always limited by it, as stated by the team who designed it, and then turned it into OSX. File management on Macs has always been bad...or did they change that somewhere without telling anyone?? Linux isn't perfect, kinda like windows and osx, but it's modular, being continuously adapted and refined and has features that both windows and osx should take note of. Ease of use....it will get there, like most things.

February 6, 2008 6:05 AM
Josh said:

Listen, To the guy who said linux is a hobby OS. Ask Google and yahoo and wikipedia if the hobby is working out for them.

February 8, 2008 9:53 PM

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