GLOOOOOOOOOM!!!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Everyone knows that Apple are irresponsible rebels and Microsoft runs the gentleman's club. (I don't play golf, by the way).

Sigh... this argument is the tritest of the trite on both sides. I was a PC man for over a decade and never had issues with spyware or viruses. Security is 99% in the hands of the user and 1% in the hands of the OS. Use whatever system you like; don't let TV tell you what to do.

The article has been obviously written with a windows pc, but my concern is: was it actually written by a human user or by a VIRUS???

In reply to Ira:
Of course your PC system was safe, but at what cost? How much time did you spend on security? How much money did you spend on anti-virus software?

I'll tell you how much I've spent on my mac's security: none.

With the PC, everything is in the hand's of the user, which means more wasted time and more wasted money. Most consumers would rather not have to spend time shopping for anti-virus software, firwalls, etc., they'd rather have it built right into the operating system (and for it to work.) Hence, the Mac ads make perfect sense: If you want security built in and not worry about viruses and spyware, buy a Mac.

Chris: Well, I set AdAware to run once a week. Know what it found? My tracking cookies. I also set Defragmenter to run once a week. I never spent a dime on security software, or more than a couple hours a month on deleting old files.

Here's what I mean, Chris. If you don't want viruses on your computer, don't open strange e-mail attachments. Actually, don't even open strange e-mails. If you don't want spam, don't pimp out your e-mail address to every single website that asks for it. If you don't want personal information stolen, don't leave it lying around. Common sense is the biggest component of security in any situation.

I am simply sharing my experience; when on a PC, I took no precautions other than exercising common sense, and I never had to deal with a virus, a DDOS, identity theft, etc. I would be naive to think there are no stories like mine, and you would be naive to think you're not spreading just a little FUD of your own here.

Common sense when it comes to computer security doesn't exist. Just because there's a group of people that read articles like this that know what they're doing, doesn't make it common sense.

I've spent way too much time doing support to think that there's any way to remotely instill even an iota of the knowledge you so glibly refer to as "common sense" into some people.

People aren't broken, the technology that requires this so-called common sense is.

Ira, you make a good point, but I think where it falls apart is on the issue of common sense. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, and you do have common sense and don't open strange emails, do run AdAware, etc. You don't have problems. The problem is most computer users don't have the common sense necessary not to do these things. Sure, they should, but they obviously don't.

You can't argue the fact of which platform has more current problems with viruses and spyware. It's Windows. The reason why is up for debate, but that's not the point of my post. If you give a "typical user" a Mac, and an identical "typical user" a PC running Windows (both with the same lack of common sense) and let them use the machine for a month I would bet the user working with a Mac would have far fewer problems with viruses and spyware than the user working with the Windows machine.

Again, I completely understand the point you are making. I am just saying that in this world the common sense that talk about people needing to have can't be assumed.

Having used Windows (mostly) for the past 10 years, I have had all of 1 virus, some sort of trojan which I fixed in about 10 minutes. With both a Mac and PC at home now, I use the PC mostly. Many more choices for software, for one reason. Harware configuration though, is what I just can't part with.

I think the Apple ad that is most misleading is the one with the Japanese camera. My PC notebook has a 6-in-one media slot, so I just pop out whatever memory card is in a camera and just plug in. When is Apple going to offer that? Or more than just 2 laptop designs? Gee, I can buy over, what... a thousand PC configs?..

Ira, we don't know how you use your PC but it's pretty incredible that you're claiming not to use an anti-virus program. I'd have to assume that you're very careful about which websites you visit (which is something we don't have to spend any brain cycles on when using a Mac).

Even at work, with layer upon layer of extra programs running in the background and consuming network bandwidth and CPU cycles, we've been hit by three huge company-wide viruses (spread mostly by Outlook address books) over the last three years, resulting in four total days of PCs (not Macs) being banned from the network (and productivity).

Ira,

Sorry, but this is an accusation, I suppose. Here goes: I always wonder if the inevitable "I've never had a problem with my PC" post is true. I don't have a PC, but my brother does, and I can tell you he never does the stupid stuff you cite as being the reason why PC users get into trouble. Still, over a few months of normal web use, his new Dell laptop became unusable. The advice? Wipe everything. It's totally unrealistic to think you'll be able to remove all the crud. So guess what? Three months later, he's saying, "Yep, it's time to wipe everything and start over". As if it's *normal procedure*! You guys, I've had Macs for *ten years* and I've never had a single instance of a slowdown, let alone a virus. Conversely, every PC owner I've ever met has had massive (by comparison) system failures over time. I've yet to meet one that doesn't reinstall everything and start over at least once a year. So Ira, I just don't believe you. PCs, without heroic defenses and security behaviours, are *inevitably* going to fall apart over time. If you're the exception, I apologise.

This argument is getting so old. The MAIN reason that PCs are attacked so much is because they're so widely used. Seriously, I'm a Mac user too but don't think I'm going to let my guard down because I haven't a virus - yet.

In my two years of owning and working solely on a Mac, I have received a total of zero (read: N-O-N-E) viruses and security threats.

That's a flat out lie and you know it. You've probably received thousands of emails containing Windows viruses and thousands of spam email containing messages of your Windows security being threatened. Doesn't matter that you're on a Mac, you still received them.

It’s like a carmaker saying with a wink that its vehicles are so safe that you don’t need to worry about your seat belt.

Wouldn't a better analogy be a carmaker with an ad that says its cars with airbags are safer than cars without airbags?

I think that's better, but when you put it that way it makes his entire article seem silly and pointless.

I guess that's why he didn't use it.

Vista is not delayed because the security features ar being toned down. When was that ever said by anyone toher then the writer of this article? He seems to be confusing it with the overbearing implementation of User Account Protection (UAP) in Vista, which is being toned down because of beta tester complaints (most famously, Paul Thurrot). Nobody ever said that had anything to do with the delay into next year.

Welcome to Seattle. About once a month, the times runs an anti-mac column or op-ed piece. This one is par for the course.

I wonder if MS has these guys in their back pockets...

I totally agree with you. If Brier Dudley had written only about the fact that Mac users are no more protected then PC users against phising attacks then he might have had a point. If I get an email "from" HSBC telling me to update my account details it looks equally plausible on a Mac and a PC. Apart from this one bit, his article is an utter BS.

What I love the most about this type of articles is how they equate the switch to Intel processor with more viruses. Of course only people who "don't know sh.t and never did" can make such an assertion.

Ira,

You are apparently missing the point. This isn't about you, or any of us other geeks, but rather the other 98% of the population. While I agree that Malware is not a difficulty for most geeks to deal with, this is simply not the case with most americans.

Most americans don't wish to spend even 'a few hours per month' to clean their computers.

Most americans don't want to worry about opening up a specific emails or about going to different websites. Most americans can't even tell the difference between them!

Most americans are affected by viruses, spyware, and other malicious code. This is a FACT.

I for one, am sick of it (hence why I own a mac now). I am sick of trying... i am sick of putting in the effort and money to protect my multi-thousand dollar investment. I am tired of being corralled into using a few popular websites, and having these things futher reduce my functionality.

No, sir... I choose a different road, and I haven't looked back since.

That being said... If I wanted to, I still could. BECAUSE MY COMPUTER (MAC) RUNS BOTH OPERATING SYSTEMS!

"Security is 99% in the hands of the user and 1% in the hands of the OS."

Don't you use a computer in order to make things easier for you? With do respect, those aren't acceptable percentages, not for Microsoft, Apple, or anyone else who produces an operating system. Yes, you could simply disconnect your machine from the network to make it secure, but that approach has obvious drawbacks...

How about this -- we'll just have the user -- in whose hands rests 99% of security -- code a more secure OS.

"Here's what I mean, Chris. If you don't want viruses on your computer, don't open strange e-mail attachments. Actually, don't even open strange e-mails. If you don't want spam, don't pimp out your e-mail address to every single website that asks for it. If you don't want personal information stolen, don't leave it lying around. Common sense is the biggest component of security in any situation."

--
Exactly Ira, exactly. Except a mac user doesn't even have to worry about such things. I CAN open up emails, I CAN use my email address to register places, I CAN feel safe with personal info on my computer. I don't need to browse the internet in fear and worry about things like that. I don't need to search, download, and install adware programs because I am worried that the joke website I go to might be loading adware on my system. Hell, I don't even to worry about the pop up windows. I can "share" my machine, right out of the box, with literary a click of a button, without fear. I can remote into it, run it as a server, share printers, let others have access- without that fear. Yes, you know how to use a PC... good for you... buy yourself a cake, ave a party. But you sir are a minority in the PC world. You want to talk about Apple on having a 5% marketshare? How about PC users who have no viruses or adware being at most likely a 2% out of 90% level. Why? Why consider such hassles simply a "how it is" computing experience? Why should my mother be afraid to buy things online, to open emails of family photos, why should she be convinced to spend more money on Anti-everything software by the Best Buy salesman? Why should the beginner or experienced computer user have to start up a new machine and instantly attempt to fix and secure it out of fear?

Good for you Ira. Now all you need to do is teach every Windows user in the world to be exactly like you, and suddenly Windows will be a much safer environment. Personally I'd rather let the OS take the strain.

Mountain/Mohammed and all that.

While I'm as exclusively a Mac user as I can be these days, I'll have to partially back up Ira there -- albeit only partially. A user can take steps to reduce most of the pitfalls, but it's such a tightrope. Browse the web for an hour with IE and spyware might have been installed on your machine. This has happened to me at least once -- it wasn't through any action on my part more careless than accidentally using the browser that came pre-installed.

As uncomfortable as it may be to point out, many of Windows' problems are inherent in the OS design. I'm not talking about the permissions model, per se (which isn't very good, but it's not as if Unix's is a work of art, either), but the heavy reliance on a component architecture developed with no real security model in mind. It keeps being renamed, but when push comes to shove, it's a direct descendant of OLE, from the pre-internet days. That's what generally keeps creating holes in Windows, and it's why it's so difficult to completely secure: it can't be rearchitected in a way that breaks existing applications and components, many of which rely on having the barn door open 24/7.

I have always been a windows user before I went to university. Switched to Mac about two years ago, and never looked back...
Mac OS X has so much more to offer other than security. As a computer science student, Mac is such a good platform to develop on. Just feel I was so blind before when I was using windows before and not seeing the beautiful Mac OS X.
Recall from the windows days I always reinstalled the OS about every 6 months. Comparing to my Mac experience, I reinstalled the OS once. Oh, what was the reason? I upgraded to Tiger! Sometimes I wished MS could release a new version of windows every 6 months, so I can make my routine task a meaningful one!

I use Windows at work and administrate a small network with 7 workstations and a Windows server. I use Macs exclusively at home.

Every week I find that someone has managed to install a trojan or get infected with a Virus. We have very good anti-virus software and I run anti-spyware scanners as well. These programs just can not keep up with the variation of infections constantly being unleashed upon Windows users. Invariably I waste a couple of hours - if not days rescanning all the machines once an outbreak has been identified.

None of these problems ever occurred on my Macs. Ever.

"...why should she be convinced to spend more money on Anti-everything software by the Best Buy salesman? Why should the beginner or experienced computer user have to start up a new machine and instantly attempt to fix and secure it out of fear?"

Well, it's just like taking medicine or going on a diet. Many people prefer that in comparison to preventing fatness and other kinds of illnesses beforehand by living a healthy life and eating healthy food. And when someone even hints that their life could be better, that there is something stupid in relying on pills or anti-something software, they take it as an insult. This is why they must keep on spending money on such crap.

I think the new Mac ads are targeting the wrong things. I haven't had a virus or trojan since I've been using Windows XP (about two and a half years now) and my current PC, built back in February, has been shutdown only twice (and one of those times was due to a local power failure).

These days, Windows just works. I have an antivirus program that I installed once, set up automatic updates, and it just runs in the background, checking from time to time for DAT file updates. Done. No further work on my part.

Why isn't Apple touting the Mac platform's real advantages?

The reason I'm still a Windows user is because Apple is a hardware company, and makes you buy their proprietary hardware if you want to run Mac OS.

The commercial that says that the Mac works with every device that works with Windows is just an outright lie, too. I have a few devices that don't work on anything but Windows. Sure, most digital cameras are USB Mass Storage devices these days, but what about PDAs, PlaysForSure MP3 players (for those who want to use a music service other than iTMS), printers (had a problem at the office with a new laser printer that didn't come with Mac drivers), TV capture devices, etc.

Apple may offer their version of all of these things, but the Apple version may not be the one I want. Windows gives me choice and empowerment. Mac locks me in to someone else's choices.

Also, I guess Mac users don't play new computer games, right? I mean, it seems that way, since none of the big titles will play on the Mac.

When I was looking to buy a new PC back in February I was seriously considering making the "switch" to Mac. I really like OS X and even bought a copy of it to run under PearPC.

Of course, many things are the same - Office, Adobe Creative Suite, Firefox, and I think there is a Mac version of Eudora (email) too, although I'm sure I could find some Mac analogue.

But a lot of the things I'd run or use don't work on the Mac.

Mac: it just doesn't work (with everything, like Windows does).

This is probably beating a dead horse... but, as a former PC user at home (early 90s to 2003), I never had a virus/spyware problem on my home pc. I am still responsible for my company's PC network and clients, and my work machine has always been fine too. Ira has good points - it's largely up to the user and his/her actions. [Can't believe the no antivirus software approach though - that's just crazy insane bonkers.] At the end of the day, though, I have persistent problems with some coworker machines (spyware in particular, but some viruses as well). These problems do not exist for the Mac - it really is that simple. At home, I do not install/run/update antivirus software - and that is a huge productivity benefit. I used to be so hardcore about ensuring that all elements of my PC were updated - antivirus, Windows Update, firewall, antispyware, etc. And I even enjoyed it to a degree. Now having used a Mac at home for 2.5 yrs, I don't miss those efforts...at all. Instead, I see direct benefits of using that time on my machine differently. Time certainly is the greatest benefit of not focusing any energy (whatsoever) on security, but not having to pay for any of that is really nice too. Ira, feel free to 'waste' your time. Or, maybe, just maybe, you could use a Mac for a few months and personally realize these benefits yourself. I didn't expect the benefits to be so obvious, but they are.

ira is right, common sense is enough to be secure on windows, if you know what you're doing to a certain extent. there still are threats, but they're unlikely enough that a weekly backup is adequate protection. most of those are moot points if you have a secure firewall, a NATing router or similar. viruses can be fended off with the most basic precautions, anti-virus software is totally unnessesary.

still, there are millions and millions of people out there who are careless and get their machines infected with all kinds of malware. there's no doubt they would benefit from switching to a mac. but there's also no doubt that this wouldn't protect them from trojans that rely purely on social engineering and aren't exploiting any security flaws. security definitely is better on the mac than on windows but it doesn't make that much of a difference as long as the real battle has to be fought in the realm of educating users.

The guy who says he doesnt have to worry about emails or opening attachments is obviously running Junkmatcher in tandem with Mail app, else he is going to get as bogged down with spam as anyone on a PC. Obviously the viruses included in spam wont hurt his mac, but it sure could hit the big mac bonus: productivity, sorting through his headstrong Im immune-induced piles of junk.