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June 14, 2007

internet

1 million downloads for Safari on Windows; but is it bad?

Posted Jun. 14, ’07, 3:50 PM PT by Thomas Gagnon-van Leeuwen
Category | Internet

safarimarketshare.jpg

Didn’t take too long, uh? Just two days after its release, the public beta of Safari 3 for Windows was downloaded for the millionth time. Time will tell if it really catches on and makes a dent in IE’s and Firefox’s market shares, though.

Speaking of Firefox, Mozilla COO John Lilly doesn’t like the way Apple is presenting Safari on Windows. He rightly points out on his blog that the slides Steve showed at WWDC (see above) suggest Safari would replace Firefox as the main IE competitor, essentially making the web a playground for two computer giants, eliminating the open-source Firefox.

This world view that Steve gave a glimpse into betrays their thinking: it’s out-of-date, corporate-controlled, duopoly-oriented, not-the-web thinking. And it’s not good for the web. Which is sort of moot, I think, because I don’t think this 2 party world will really come to be.
I have to say I was a little confused when Steve basically showed the ideal scenario being Safari gobbling up Firefox and leaving IE intact. It seems to me they’d be going after Microsoft, not the Mozilla foundation. Maybe these two slide were just accidental mistakes, but as John Lilly points out, “lots of words describe Steve & his Stevenotes, but ‘careless’ and ‘accidental’ do not.”

[via digg]


8 Comments

Wes Harden said:

nice reporting Thomas.

i must also admit, i immediately was taken aback when that second slide came up, but then...

i laughed very hard.

no matter how you look at it, whether steve meant to predict stomping out mozilla and opera or not, it was humorous, but i seriously doubt that it was meant as a cheap shot at mozilla.

heres what i really think about it:

the first slide has percentages, the second, does not. therefore i think the second slide is actually just meant to demonstrate what steve projected as the comparison of safari users to IE users in a few years, disregarding the other open source or alternative browsers out there. maybe even demonstrating the amount of IEs browser share that safari will take over.

but honestly, mozillas COO is being too harsh on apple. even tho the transition between those two slides made it look like safari was going to eat up the competition, i believe they were meant to represent two different measurements.

both steve jobs and john lilly know that firefox and the others represent a growing niche of users that demand open source usability and the ability to create any kind of plugin they desire. and that demand certainly wont go away. so john, quit being such a baby.

you're acting like that really hot girl that won't take compliments and insists she just isnt that pretty. no one is gonna steal your date to the prom. just chill out a little! steve never went on record saying that this "duopoly" will come to power.

at least he was kind of giving credit to steve while at the same time, insulting him... there ARE many words that describe stevenotes, most are positive. hell, the fact that STEVEnote is a word...

but once again, thanks for bringing this to our attention thom. and you are right, apple IS going after microsoft. apple is and always will be the friend of open source and the ultra-hip little sister of linux.

June 14, 2007 5:23 PM
Long said:

That's a good point about that Safari should be gobbling IE instead of Firefox. It could be that the pie chart was done hastily which seems unlikely for Apple.

It's also unlikely for Firefox to go away since there are so many Mac users choosing it over Safari already.

IE users may turn to Safari in Windows, but Firefox users on Windows won't budge.

June 14, 2007 5:23 PM
Jack said:

I was taken aback by this slide when I watched to note too. I honestly do think it was a mistake. People are saying that they never make mistakes in the Keynotes. Well, I understand, but I think this year was different. I really think they changed to whole keynote at the last minute; I mean the keynote made no sense in my opinion.

If they had thought about it, they could have had a slide representing the future with firefox having like 49%, Safari having like 49% and IE having like 2%. I would have just been a joke and not ruffled any feathers (well no feathers that mattered :) ).

There is incredible resistance to get parents to switch to firefox on windows. I simply can't do it. But I told my mother in law to download safari when it came out...I told her the iTunes people make it...and guess what...she is now a beta tester.... Older people like known brands or something.

June 14, 2007 6:34 PM
Sam the Freeman said:

That was my first post on MacUser, and MacSide in general.

Though Safari crashed on vista for me in a minutes from I downloaded it, I still have to give it a credit due.

Being power user, who spends whole day in front of the hundreds tabs open (increasingly on my new MB), I'm amased about this new feature : detach tabs into new windows.

I wanted this feature for Firefox for a long time.

And with this it opens a whole new dimension to organize your tabs, when they increase out of hand.

Though in my dream browser, I'd like also to see feature from IE7 : new tabs open right behind it's source tab, not in the end of the row.

So, again, I think competition is good for all : the users, the products, even the vendors, as they continue to innovate, and their brains stay sharp & clear and their asses nimble & lean.

June 14, 2007 9:50 PM
Sam Freeman said:

I dont' think they made a mistake with this slide, it's just not Jobs's style.
Yet it doesn't distract from the dumbness of it.
Rather it's an indication of Jobs's plans for AFTER iPhone Mac generation.

Firefox (where it's not locked out) is not going anywhere, more than that, it'll continue to convert more from both camps (MS's & Apple's proprietary), not because of it's open sourcennes, not many care about our collective freedoms these days, but because it continues to excel in the ways no proprietary moneyheads will be ever able to conceive.

But more worrying, which this slide just surfaced, is that Jobs turning his back on open source and 3rd partys.
By closing, inventing ways & excuses to hinder anybody elses influence on future platforms, of which I believe iPhone is precursor.

I'm no business nor developer, and my only interest is to run programs & browsers I CHOOSE, on the hardware I PAID FOR, (at my own risk of course if you ask), and even demand 3rd party support from hardvare/OS vendor.

Sucking up to Jobs to let Him run it his way, we not only give up on our freedoms (just a little small insignificant bit you say, but it's a start I believe), but we let everybody down, because that's creates precedent, of which everybody will take advantage of.

Apple didn't invent this way of chaining people/tech, but their brand's sheer might & glamour, will make it fashionable, and than, the likes of MSFT will make a much worse use of it, and take advantage of all of us.

I say :
If it has Mac OS X, than it's a Mac !!!
iPhone is a Mac !!!!
A truly new innovative Mac we have all been dreaming of.

And if it's a Mac, than it's stable enough on itself, and if my ISP/wireless prowider crashes because of it (which is not), than let them improve themselves, that's their business anyways.

So I say, fight Apple for your OPEN iPhone.
They still a public company, and still care about their image, etc. And there is a ways to pressure them to open platform for TRUE COMPETITION amongst software.

And the likes of me are even ready to beta test, for the benefit of others, who want their Mac/iPhone to just work, and thus object to opening up iPhone, or rather being readily contentious with what Jobs comes up with.

Disclaimer : I just switched few weeks ago, and will be amongst you in line for iPhone on 29th in Santa Clara's Apple Store. Still I intend to fight and even pledge my business resources, to either push Apple to let everybody in on this new Mac, or break in with hacks.
And I think it's rather both ways I'll take.

June 14, 2007 10:04 PM
Thomas said:

Safari will gobble up shares of both IE and Firefox because it is faster and more elegant...which isn't to say that Firefox doesn't have plenty of advantages of its own. Firefox isn't going away, but Safari will take a sizable bite out of their usage.

June 15, 2007 5:50 AM
dave said:

the explanation for this is simple: Jobs and MS are playing partners now and they are aiming at stomping out opensource.

June 15, 2007 6:55 AM
Mark said:

Rarely do I disagree with so many.

The Real Steve Jobs knows what he is talking about regarding Safari v. Firefox.

Very few IE brower users have that as their default browser because they made the choice to make it their default browser.

A handful of Firefox users pick it out of high-minded belief in open source (and few just don't want the man to have any more control of their computer).

The typical Firefox user has it because they've looked at choices and believe it is the best product. Across the aisle there are a few who think IE is best and stick with it. There are still others who have an innate fear of open source and will never be in a position to depend on open source when a corporate world solution is available.

The Real Steve Jobs knows he will be limited in denting the IE by default people (might snag a few with iPhone, maybe some more by marrying iTunes 8 to it). He won't win over the open source hard core. His target will be the folks who want a big company behind their product and those who are seeking the best product. He has a better chance of denting Firefox than IE simply because of the inertia of those who just use what came with the machine.

June 15, 2007 8:22 AM

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