My question is... why didn't you just order some RAM from a vendor that doesn't charge an arm and a leg?

You could have gone to newegg.com and got maxed out at 2GBs for about $150.

I had the same sort of "mind bending" experience in the store when I attempted to buy a 20" iMac with maxed out mem a while back.

They wanted me to buy a 1GB iMac and pay for a complete upgrade to 2GB! (what am I going to do with the original sim's?? give them to a friend it was suggested)

I could understand if the iMac was even slightly used, but this was brand new, in the store, only Apple touches it... makes no sense to me. (nor to the large number of other customers who were hovering around listening to all this transpire.)

On a previous visit to the store, an Apple sales rep indicated we could buy the iMac, w/2Gb, for the same price you can add it to the config in the online store.

Long story short, after discussing with the sales rep, the store manager etc. and spending way too much time trying to get some kind of logical explanation from them, I ordered from Apple online (while still in the store!) so I wouldn't have to pay for memory I couldn't use.

Apple: Your stores (by and large) are a great user experience, why would you want to frustrate your customers??

Make the "Apple" experience painless for your clients! Don't blow the good image and great traction you are finally gaining with the masses!

Next time I think I would follow the previous posters advice and simply buy the memory elsewhere. (Think about it Apple... is that what you want?)

R

yeah... the same thought came into my mind... why not just get cheaper ram elsewhere... he probably would save more money than just get a coorporate discount... ram for the macbook is like $80 bucks

When you do a RAM upgrade on a build-to-order, you get a credit for the unused stock RAM that's built into the base cost of the Macbook, then charged the full price for the upgrade RAM. The upgrade RAM nets out as being cheaper even though - from a cost accounting perspective - it's not at all.

You can't get that credit in retail stores because it's technically used RAM and can't be resold.

With the discount, the upgrade is about $164. For better or worse, the Apple RAM gave him warm fuzzies.

My real problem with the whole scenario is that Apple made it such a hassle when it's to their benefit to make it easier for the customer, regardless of the overpriced nature of their RAM.

Even if the original RAM is now considered used must be reused as refurb in repair or otherwise, that's a lot less costly to Apple than having to sell a computer as a refurb.

Bottom line: common sense should be applied to their policies.

Actually, the behaviour or the Apple store is perfectly rational. You're just confused about the difference between "configuring" and "upgrading". When you upgrade on the online store, you're just changing the workorder, and a machine is built from scratch with the requested amount of RAM. The machine your friend received, however, was quite real, and it had real RAM in it. Your friendly local Apple store is happy to sell you your NEW ram at the exact same price as the online store, however it's too late for them to NOT put in the existing RAM. So they just give it back to you. Would you prefer that they sell your used RAM to somebody else as new? (Would you be OK if the RAM they put in your friends computer had already been used by somebody else?).

So give Apple a break - they didn't do anything wrong or irrational, you just confused a configuration with an actual machine. Don't feel bad, it's a common mistake.

why would anyone pay the exorbitant upgrade costs to by memory directly from apple anyway? You'd almost be better off getting NO ram with your laptop and installing some from a 3rd party vendor. I can't say I feel sorry for the guy... let the buyer beware!

Luke, I'm not sure if your comment was before or after mine appeared.

You say Apple's behavior is rational. However, we're talking about the difference between having to reclassify a machine as refurbished instead of some RAM, and incurring the additional cost of shipping yet another machine, the labor of the Mac genius to transfer the data, and the shipping cost of sending back the old laptop (which will then require more labor to verify correct operation).

I really can't in my right mind consider that a rational policy. I just can't, regardless of a distinction between a piece of hardware and a configuration.

Joel, I wasn't asking for any pity for my friend. He got what he wanted as an end result with no extra cost from his original plan. However, as a result of Apple's policy, it's just had to reclassify a perfectly good, practically new MacBook as refurbished because of policy and not logic.

The issue I have here, just to summarize, is the policy is wasteful. I hope we can agree on that.

Sorry, Derek, I have to disagree, it has nothing to do with enforcing pricing, it's all about total cost.

Have you ever seen this line anywhere on Apple products: "Designed by Apple in California"? There's a twist behind this: Apple designs the products, and Apple sells the products, but Apple at NO TIME makes any of it's current hardware products. Apple owns NO manufacturing plants. Not one. Even if you custom order one on the web page, it's usually built-to order from one of several contracted companies over seas, sold to Apple, shipped to you directly from there. The mark-up on the computer is pretty low, usually only nickels on the dollar--computer industry profits in general are mostly on software, accessories, and service agreements. So that stock MacBook you pay a grand for is probably only netting Apple $150 profit, tops.

Let's say you don't want the RAM chip in the computer. Again, Apple doesn't make computers, so it CAN'T take that ram and stick it in another computer, and it definitely doesn't make RAM chips, so it can't stick it in a box and sell it as "Refurbished RAM." But it does buy the best in the industry--they have to provide service for the RAM they sell, and slapping a cheap stick of RAM in a million boxes will definitely increase the number of calls to apple care. Apple is big, but it still only sells 2% of the computers world wide, so it doesn't have much buying leverage. This means they get to pay the premium price for premium product. And remember, the retail stores are run as a self-sufficient entity; when they were first announced, Gateway was closing it's stores and the market said only stores like Best Buy and Circuit City could survive because customers want choices under one roof. Steve promised the stock holders that if the retail initiative could not keep up it's end, Apple would pull the cord at a moments notice. Every quarter, Apple explicitly states the Retail Store profits separate from company earnings. So Apple Stores have to buy product from Apple, Inc. like other resellers, and pay for brick-and-morter store overhead on even slimmer profits then Apple Online (which gets the direct manufacturing price). Yes, Apple stores get a better price then other resellers since they sell more volume, but even before you figure in store-expenses, that ram cost the store more then it would have cost Apple Online, which figures net profit against the company's original component cost.

If that ram chip is going to cost the store $150 on the books as "customer service expense," and the computer will sell refurbished at $50 to $100 off original price, the company makes $50 on the books, or even expenses the computer as a training unit or someone's new office machine in Cupertino, actually saving the company money since it didn't have to pull a sellable unit out of channel. Better yet for the Apple Store manager, he doesn't loose a dime, since you're not getting any of his inventory at discount. Shipping costs back and forth fall under "operating expenses" and get washed from the equation since big box retailers ship hundreds of pounds each way every day. One more MacBook is spit in the ocean.

Mac Genius labor is a planned overhead cost--your Apple Store is paying for the MG to be in the store based on how much traffic the store gets, not how much he busts his butt. Will Apple lose any money off the books if he spends 5 minutes setting up an automatic data migration instead of resetting an iPod? Or checking his e-mail? Nope. He's paid to fix problems. Transferring data from one more computer falls well within that huge realm of responsibility. Again, pissing in the sea.

When you look at the logic behind the policy, there are many reasons for it. What happened to your Dad's friend was a one-off. If these kinds of transactions were Apple's mistake instead of his, other options would make more sense. Or if he was screaming like a crazy person, scaring off other customers, it might have been cheaper to shut him up and just give him a free stick of RAM (Of course Apple Stores are usually in expensive malls, and their rent-a-cops tend to be pretty quick to haul off the crazies, so I don't recommend he pretend to be one, since public disturbance fines would set him back more then the cost of the RAM).

Wasteful? Yes--it was a waste of your friend's time not getting it right in the first place (and yours if you read this whole thing I just wrote :-D ), but 2-10 days of his time doesn't cost Apple anything. Apple took the hit for his mistake in taking back the computer, and did so in a matter that meets their best interests at the least cost given the factors in the situation.

As far as the cost of upgrading RAM in an Apple store, guess what, it costs more in a bright shiny upscale mall then in an Asian assembly plant. Go figure. But, the Apple memory is supported by Apple, and most people are afraid of the inside of their computers. Me, I'll pay someone else to change my oil for two reasons: 1) they do it more then me, so they probably will do it faster and better, 2) if it leaks onto the driveway, I can tell the wife it's not my fault. I've only ever bought cheap RAM for myself (and a third of it bad out of the box, another third bad within a year, stupid Crucial), but I make my friends get the Apple RAM since I'm the guy they'll come to screaming for help, and I know if its more then I can handle, I can just point them to their local Apple Store knowing it's one-stop help.

Joel wrote,

"why would anyone pay the exorbitant upgrade costs to by memory directly from apple anyway?"

jayH wrote,

"why not just get cheaper ram elsewhere..."

errolbert wrote,

"My question is... why didn't you just order some RAM from a vendor that doesn't charge an arm and a leg?"

Howdy, Folks.

One reason I can think of right off the bat is pre-emptively mitigating the "hassle factor" of contacting Apple Technical Support for any reason down the road.

Possible scenario:

"Hello. good day, and welcome to Apple Technical Support. What is your issue today?"

"Well, my [insert ANY issue here, hardware or software related]..."

"Okay - let me see here, I'm looking at the stock confiuration of how your machine shipped out from us originally...how much RAM do you have installed?"

"2 GB."

"Okay - I show that this machine shipped from us with 512 MB of RAM. Is that correct?"

"Yes, that's correct. I upgraded it to 2 GB right after I bought it."

"Okay - where did you purchase the RAM from? Did you buy it from Apple?"

"No, I bought it from [insert name of 3rd party vendor here]."

"Okay - let's get that machine of yours back into a stock configuration so we can troubleshoot it."

Apple WILL NOT troubleshoot your computer with any parts that you bought from 3rd party vendor and installed. I know folks that have sent their computers into Apple for repairs for such things as sleep lights not working that received their computers back without being repaired, with a note that basically states, "not in a stock configuration," because there's non-Apple "blessed" RAM in the machine.

For some people, it's worth the piece of mind to go ahead and pony up the extra cash for the upgrades from the OEM vendor so they will NOT have to deal with the above scenario. They want to simply pick up the phone, call, and know their issue will be taken care of, no questions.

(As an aside, I wonder how many Mac Pros and Mac Minis Apple can no longer sell because they cannot offer the "whole package" any more.

"I cannot get video to work in iChat."

"Okay - are you using an iSight camera?"

"No. "

"I'm sorry - we don't support 3rd party cameras."

"But...but...I just spent $10k on this Mac Pro with fully maxed out RAM from Apple and 30-inch Display! It's in a stock config! EVERYTHING is from Apple!"

"Okay - great! What kind of camera are you using, sir/miss?"

"It's a Sony Video camera connected via FireWire."

"I'm sorry - we don't support that camera. Please call Sony."

But...your website - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93245 - says any FireWire based camera!"

"I'm sorry - the issue is obviously with the camera. Please call Sony."

Yes - it can be like that. For reasons too long to go into here, tech support will do things like this. One main reason is the agent must keep their call times down, and any possible reason to get you off the phone as quickly as possible will be used to their advantage.

It's not that they don't want to help you - they're just trying to keep their jobs. When your machine is in a stock configuration, it makes it easier for them to very quickly help you out with whatever issue you're having, simply because of the stipulations that Apple has made to the tech regarding what is supported and what is not. Keep that in mind when you call, and don't punish the tech.)